tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post2644054817876584961..comments2024-03-09T18:59:51.444-07:00Comments on Raima Larter - Author: The Emergent SystemRaimahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13817382167424203932noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-38361102609709806862018-09-14T13:25:55.026-06:002018-09-14T13:25:55.026-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-8887643931592335762015-10-06T06:36:47.840-06:002015-10-06T06:36:47.840-06:00While the Concept of Emergence has Been Around for...While the Concept of Emergence has Been Around for Years<br />It May be the Key to an Understanding of Humanity<br /><br />Emergence to Singularity<br /><br />DS Pollack<br />Chasealias.comAltershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082552230414205958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-2179632238726245542014-10-04T05:26:02.467-06:002014-10-04T05:26:02.467-06:00wow its the great content ...i got the god informa...wow its the great content ...i got the god information,...i like that thank you for sharing the blog please give me many more information...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fcaassist.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Financial industry regulation</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079579646679032959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-80692508517757096262014-05-14T14:39:06.753-06:002014-05-14T14:39:06.753-06:00Raima, You write with simplicity and clarity, whic...Raima, You write with simplicity and clarity, which makes it so easy to understand this not-so-easy-to-understand topic. Am anxious to read more of your posts about the science of emergence. Alan Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013132721952338529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-34420155458725669832012-10-19T06:09:47.980-06:002012-10-19T06:09:47.980-06:00Yes, Hofstaedter's work is very relevant to al...Yes, Hofstaedter's work is very relevant to all this. Thanks for your comment, including the one that seems to have now been deleted about "emergent system" being a misnomer. I agree that the proper way to word this is to say that the system exhibits emergent properties, not that there is anything that could be called "an emergent system." However, the title of the post was in response to the usage of that term in the press, so I wanted to explain what people seemed to be trying to write about, but we're missing some of the subtleties.Raimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817382167424203932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-7835660369889936302012-10-18T20:48:12.340-06:002012-10-18T20:48:12.340-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15134876484753669009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-60309727280172623322012-10-18T20:45:54.845-06:002012-10-18T20:45:54.845-06:00That's simply a characterization of behaviour....That's simply a characterization of behaviour. A chaotic system is one which exhibits 'chaotic' behaviour. See also: 'chaos theory'. It suggests that there are 'states' in a given system in which behaviour is linear (like laminar flow in air flow analyses) and 'chaotic'. The term 'emergent system' is actually a misnomer. We speak of 'emergent properties' of a system. Like the way that complex systems have a personality or purport to function differently than the purpose for which they were designed.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15134876484753669009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-78603637767469814432012-10-18T20:41:48.439-06:002012-10-18T20:41:48.439-06:00the root of the concept comes from cybernetics. On...the root of the concept comes from cybernetics. One of it's prime proselytizers was Douglas Hofstaedter, whose essay in Godel Escher and Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid discussed how the emergent properties of an ant colony exhibited the intelligence of a single mind. And his idea was that this was how we could get computers to have consciousness eventually.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15134876484753669009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-82640156032241567652012-09-06T12:14:19.168-06:002012-09-06T12:14:19.168-06:00Thanks for your comment - many excellent points in...Thanks for your comment - many excellent points in here! It seems to me you are making an excellent argument for continuing our pursuit of a detailed understanding of emergent systems. I don't think, though, that understanding them better will ever allow us to control them, except at the level of systemic design. I very much agree with your last point about the vulnerability of the financial system, which is clearly subject to these types of self-correcting events, so the only way to prevent that is in the initial design. <br /><br />On the other hand, emergent systems in the natural world (those we have not "designed" ourselves) may also be subject to these self-destructive corrections. Our response to that can be a desire to control or change the system, but who are we to say that these seemingly catastrophic changes are bad? I think it requires some trust on our part and a willingness to admit that maybe we don't understand the bigger picture here. As the saying goes, what seems like the end of the world to the caterpillar is, to the Master, a butterfly.Raimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817382167424203932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-57274701276348839452012-09-05T22:41:44.369-06:002012-09-05T22:41:44.369-06:00I'm less worried about control than lack of it...I'm less worried about control than lack of it. Emergent systems are adaptive - they can modify their behaviour in response to environmental stimuli as a whole for the benefit of the whole, regardless of the impact on an individual. This makes emergence a survival trait which is beneficial overall. However, circumstances outside the normal range of environmental stimuli can cause the entire population to self-destruct. This is of course just natural selection at work on the system as an individual, where systems that can adapt that little bit more are preferentially selected. The problem for us comes when there is just one copy of the emergent system - the potential for self-destruction due to circumstances never predicted (a 'black swan' event) is real and for a society dependent on that emergent system, potentially fatal.<br /><br />We now have emergent behaviours appearing from interconnected programmes (not computers themselves). A particularly troubling one is automated trading, where computers trade assets faster than a human could possibly monitor. There have been numerous 'flash crashes', some unexplained, in which computer trades cause wild fluctuations in a share price or, worse, an entire market. The rules that govern the market can't take into account every possible external 'black swan' event, so they have to be designed to protect the system from self-destruction whatever happens. We are a long way from this at the moment and until then, our financial systems are extremely vulnerable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-77584452712009077772012-03-22T19:09:06.643-06:002012-03-22T19:09:06.643-06:00Nice :) I have been wondering about this issue, I ...Nice :) I have been wondering about this issue, I wanted to thank you for this special read.louisville luxury hotelshttp://www.louisville-hotels-kentucky.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-27498919463255024592011-10-27T11:31:14.448-06:002011-10-27T11:31:14.448-06:00I like how it all resembles fractals, nature, life...I like how it all resembles fractals, nature, life and the universe is all about fractals, once that we understand this concept, we can understand the laws of all.xl pharmacyhttp://www.xlpharmacy.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-7599605033226743712011-05-24T11:13:25.830-06:002011-05-24T11:13:25.830-06:00Fun! & FYI, found my way here via
http://bigt...Fun! & FYI, found my way here via <br />http://bigthink.com/ideas/38557 "emergent system" link (May 24, 2011). Started at http://bigthink.com/ideas/38554 (Marriage is an Emergent System, David Brooks) Interesting, also bumped into you a while back via fractal cookie discussion. (grin) Here's to feedback loops between nodes!midwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10358569420131209675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-91334945544788646152011-05-24T11:06:38.712-06:002011-05-24T11:06:38.712-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.midwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10358569420131209675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-48911123021609544672011-04-04T08:09:24.247-06:002011-04-04T08:09:24.247-06:00Hi - thanks for your comment/question. A chaotic s...Hi - thanks for your comment/question. A chaotic system is an emergent system in which chaotic behavior emerges from the interactions of the system's parts. Chaos isn't the only thing that can emerge in these systems -- sometimes very orderly behavior emerges. So, the short answer is that chaotic systems are a sub-category of emergent systems.Raimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817382167424203932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-49274317282141382762011-04-03T17:33:58.948-06:002011-04-03T17:33:58.948-06:00can someone explain the difference between emergen...can someone explain the difference between emergent systems and chaotic systems?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-89442528744332727612011-01-13T12:46:32.697-07:002011-01-13T12:46:32.697-07:00It seems that some congregations have realized the...It seems that some congregations have realized they have to change somehow and they are trying to exchange ideas which is greatviagra onlinehttp://www.iservepharmacy.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7325300274115265117.post-41099021668147292232009-04-21T06:38:00.000-06:002009-04-21T06:38:00.000-06:00Thanks for your twitter update that led me here. ...Thanks for your twitter update that led me here. I'm fascinated by this topic, now called emergence, and have been recently tantalized by seeing bits of it everywhere. I wonder how this all relates to the system we call "The Cloud." I'm off now to rifle through your blog archive. Thank you!Robin Lawriehttp://robinlawrie.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com